“Lilith Truthful: Constructing a Thriller” remembers the success of the woman-led music pageant created by singer Sarah McLachlan. McLachlan and documentarian Ally Pankiw discuss in regards to the movie.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Music festivals are sometimes crammed with dudes, dudes and extra dudes. Within the late ’90s, a bunch of organizers tried one thing completely different – put ladies first. Trade insiders mentioned, not an opportunity this may work. However Lilith Truthful was a smash.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “LILITH FAIR: BUILDING A MYSTERY”)
INDIGO GIRLS: (Singing) Nearer I’m to high-quality, yeah.
FADEL: Folks flocked to see musicians just like the Indigo Ladies, Sheryl Crow, Erykah Badu and the principle driver of the pageant, Sarah McLachlan. There is a documentary on Hulu proper now trying again on what they achieved. It is known as “Lilith Truthful: Constructing A Thriller.” We’ll hear from director Ally Pankiw in a bit. However first, Sarah McLachlan informed me what the ambiance was like within the music trade on the time.
SARAH MCLACHLAN: It was nonetheless very male-dominated. There was an perspective that you might not play ladies back-to-back on the radio, and also you definitely could not have them play collectively on tour. Like, I might go…
FADEL: That is wild.
MCLACHLAN: …Into radio stations on a regular basis, and so they’d say, oh, properly, we love your track. However we actually cannot add it this week as a result of we added Tracy Chapman, or as a result of we added Jewel, or we added Sinead O’Connor. And I am like, properly, that is extraordinarily irritating, to bang up in opposition to that on a regular basis.
FADEL: So Lilith Truthful involves be, and also you begin with only a few reveals. And persons are form of telling you, Sarah, this isn’t going to work. What are you doing?
MCLACHLAN: Nicely, hassle is we had been already doing it, you realize?
(LAUGHTER)
FADEL: And it was working.
MCLACHLAN: It was working, yeah. We did 4 reveals in 1996, form of a check run. And we bought out, like, 15,000-, 20,000-seat amphitheaters.
FADEL: Let’s hear a clip from the movie. That is singer-songwriter Paula Cole.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “LILITH FAIR: BUILDING A MYSTERY”)
PAULA COLE: And we realized, like, that is one thing that is a lot larger than us or what we even thought it may very well be. There was magic within the air, and that was the primary day of Lilith Truthful.
FADEL: Ally, going again to the late ’90s to doc what Lilith Truthful meant to folks – means to folks – I imply, why was it vital to revisit this second in time now?
ALLY PANKIW: I feel it is, like, the proper second, sadly. I feel that interval of popular culture, like, taught me how to have a look at myself and the way to consider myself as a younger girl and as a younger homosexual individual. It is only a blueprint for a greater solution to do issues as a result of there was a niche within the trade. There wasn’t actually a number of protected areas for girls the place they might go to a pageant or eat reside music.
FADEL: Yeah.
PANKIW: And so it was undoubtedly filling a niche – noticed a requirement and stuffed it. And, like, that is simply good enterprise.
FADEL: Yeah.
MCLACHLAN: I imply, it was virtually form of an antithesis of the way in which I used to be raised, too, which was, you realize, do not go pondering you are something particular. And, you’ll fail. Why would you even strive? And I am like…
FADEL: Aww.
MCLACHLAN: And it was all about proving my mom improper. So, you realize, thanks, Mother.
(LAUGHTER)
FADEL: It labored out. There is a element on this movie that I did not learn about. And it was one other actually heartbreaking second to observe as a lady, which is how the Grammys handled among the Lilith Truthful artists that swept the awards that night time.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “LILITH FAIR: BUILDING A MYSTERY”)
UNIDENTIFIED PRESENTER: And the Grammy goes to Shawn Colvin and John Leventhal.
FADEL: But they’ve this diminishing expertise on the Grammys.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “LILITH FAIR: BUILDING A MYSTERY”)
SHAWN COLVIN: However then Paula Cole, Sarah McLachlan and I had been requested to share the stage and do that medley as an alternative of every of us with the ability to play our personal songs.
MCLACHLAN: And that is one thing that occurs lots within the Grammys. They love to do these mashups. However on the time, contemplating the massiveness of our success, it felt identical to as soon as once more, we had been taking a step backwards and being lumped into this cool class of, oh, simply ladies. The ladies are going to do some medley. And but, you realize, R. Kelly and Hanson are – you realize, get their very own full observe.
FADEL: Wow.
MCLACHLAN: And I am like, actually? You recognize, in some methods, we must always have simply mentioned, [expletive]. We’re not doing it. However but they might have simply gotten another person to fill the slot. So we thought, OK, properly, it is a minute and 30 seconds that we every get to play to, you realize, the largest viewers we have in all probability ever had on nationwide tv. However we weren’t that comfortable about it.
FADEL: Yeah.
PANKIW: It felt a bit, like, punitive. It simply felt like after yearly of Lilith, it was like, we wish to remind you – do not get too highly effective. Do not get…
MCLACHLAN: Yeah. Do not suppose you are larger than your self. Do not get too excited.
FADEL: Yeah.
MCLACHLAN: Yeah.
FADEL: You oversaw three years in a row of this pageant. Why’d you cease?
MCLACHLAN: I finished as a result of I used to be completely exhausted. I had given my complete world to Lilith for 3 years, so I actually wished to have a bit extra of a standard life. So I assume I might say it was egocentric. However, you realize, I really feel like we did what we got down to do and did a lot greater than that.
FADEL: Do you see something, Sarah, within the music trade at present that is modified for the higher, maybe due to Lilith Truthful?
MCLACHLAN: I imply, I – you realize, I am not going to say it is due to Lilith Truthful, as a result of there’s many issues that come into play. However I’ll say that we undoubtedly modified – we compelled the change of attitudes inside the trade in the direction of ladies and in the direction of their industrial viability. I see artists like Taylor Swift in full management of her profession, reaching stratosphere heights and championing ladies alongside her, folks like Brandi Carlile championing ladies, championing queer artists in ways in which we by no means used to have.
FADEL: I used to be eager about Taylor Swift and Beyonce. Like, they actually transfer markets. Like, I feel with Beyonce, all this cowboy apparel simply bought out. You may’t even get it anyplace due to what she did.
MCLACHLAN: Oh, they modify a metropolis’s economic system…
FADEL: Yeah.
MCLACHLAN: …Each time they arrive to their market.
FADEL: It is superb.
MCLACHLAN: I imply, it is superb.
FADEL: Ally, similar query to you.
PANKIW: Yeah. I imply, I see younger feminine artists advocating for themselves in a method that is like, no, I do not wish to put on that. I do not need you to power me to put on what I do not wish to put on. I wish to work with the director I wish to work with. I feel that Lilith undeniably made the trail simpler for us to stroll by way of each door.
FADEL: We have been speaking in regards to the new documentary “Lilith Truthful: Constructing A Thriller.” That is now streaming on Hulu. My friends – director Ally Pankiw and the founding father of Lilith Truthful, Sarah McLachlan. And Sarah has a brand new album out, by the way in which. It is known as “Higher Damaged.” And it is your first album, I feel, in virtually a decade, proper? Your tenth album.
MCLACHLAN: Yeah, 11 years, truly.
FADEL: 11 years. Thanks each a lot.
PANKIW: Thanks.
MCLACHLAN: Thanks a lot.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “LILITH FAIR: BUILDING A MYSTERY”)
MCLACHLAN: (Singing) You are constructing a thriller.
(CHEERING)
Copyright © 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional data.
Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts could differ. Transcript textual content could also be revised to appropriate errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org could also be edited after its authentic broadcast or publication. The authoritative document of NPR’s programming is the audio document.
